Abstract

Abstract

I took a look at your two websites as you suggested, and they are certainly beautifully produced, and the Harvest Haven one gives a wonderful feeling of freshness. What I cannot understand is all that God and religion stuff that you think you need to make it work. Obviously it is some sort of psychological motivation for you, but all I can point out is that you are actually serving the earth, the world and its inhabitants with your philosophy, or religion. If you are serving God, then God is Nature. Your beliefs and actions in the world are all the more directly important, once you realize and accept it. Then you will be Adelphiasophists. Perhaps you are already!

Mike, I was looking something up and ran across your website. Please have a look at ours:
http://www.thepathoftruth.com
http://www.harvesthaven.com

I took a look at your two websites as you suggested, and they are certainly beautifully produced, and the Harvest Haven one gives a wonderful feeling of freshness. What I cannot understand is all that God and religion stuff that you think you need to make it work. Obviously it is some sort of psychological motivation for you, but all I can point out is that you are actually serving the earth, the world and its inhabitants with your philosophy, or religion. If you are serving God, then God is Nature. Your beliefs and actions in the world are all the more directly important, once you realize and accept it. Then you will be Adelphiasophists. Perhaps you are already!

Thank you for looking at our sites and your feedback. You are wrong, however, that we feel the need for God to make it work. You have it altogether backwards. God is responsible for it all and has put it together and made it work; of that there is no doubt. Read Our Testimonies
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/testimonies/index.htm,
for example. We did not make these things happen to us, and it is undoubtedly impossible that we could. Neither are we putting our interpretation onto events because the Lord has spoken to us and told us beforehand what He would do, and He did it. How do you argue with that? Hysteria or delusion? Hardly. What we have and the manner in which we live does not agree with your analysis. I am speaking of facts, not opinions. You really do not know what you are talking about.

Thank you. I have noticed over the years that Christians are always right, and always arrogant about it, but my own, reading of the gospels, flawed as they no doubt are, but as good as yours, tell me that Christ expected Christians to be humble. I have rarely encounted a humble one, especially from the American continent. As for your “testimonies”, as far as I read, which was not far because they were terribly tedious, they are quite as valueless as all the other essentially identical ones that I have read. You begin by believing because that is the way you were brought up, go through periods of doubt and angst and end up converted. Did you ever consider the psychology of it? Religious experience is all explained quite well by psychology, but religious indoctrination from an early age is hard to overcome, as Mr Hafichuk will confirm as a Catholic vecause Ignatius Loyola was the man who mastered the technique.

Perhaps all you have met in your life is religious people, who have a form of godliness, but not God. That is the vast majority of “Christendom”, and other religious. Read our site and get familiar with the difference.

Well, every Christian believer has the same idea. They all of them, every one, know God but no one else does. You were the one who mentioned delusion just now. That is what it is.

There are only two kinds of Christians. There are those who are self or man made. They follow doctrines, creeds, other people, and sometimes none of the above; they just use the Name in a casual and meaningless manner. Then there are those Christians who are so because God has made a supernatural change in their lives, and, becoming new creatures by and through Him, they speak of Him from a firsthand knowledge. They know Jesus Christ and manifest His mind, works, and will. They are in Him, and function as part of His mystical Body. We are of these latter, also known as the children of God.

That is just what I mean. You are convinced from a few psychological effects on a prepared mind that God is talking especially to you. Others think He is talking especially to them. Sooner or later they argue about who He is really talking to, and we get another war. It seems to a lot of us who do not share your delusions that Christianity is Satanic. How can you demonstrate conclusively to me that it is not? that your impression of receiving God is not really receiving Satan, a being described as the most subtle of God’s creation. In other words he is cleverer than you are and cleverer than you think.

According to your site, Adelphiasophists say:

Christians say they know there is a God, but this knowledge is without any evidence. It is revealed, which means you take it or leave it, on trust. Christians have taken it, or been taken in by it.

You are speaking of false Christians, because we, true Christians, believe not by “blind faith”, but because we have met and heard the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ. God has drawn us to Himself, and we had no choice in His choosing. It was His doing, not ours. And we certainly do have evidence, plenty of it. In fact, some of it we have in common with you, only you have drawn the wrong conclusions from it, not having the faith in Christ:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God has shown it to them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, both His eternal power and Divinity, so that they are without excuse. Because, having known God, they did not glorify Him as God, or give thanks, but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for a likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and reptiles. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of the own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 1:18-25 EMTV

For some, this worship of the creature is concealed under a guise of worship of the Creator, but in your case, you flatly confess it:

Adelphiasophism refuses to cast aside the source of this wonder, Nature, and instead sees Nature as the source of the divine. Adelphiasophism is reverence of the cosmos and Nature as sacred.

As I said, you have things backwards, Mike. I will add this thought, too. We are at harmony with nature as no Adelphiasophists could ever be, because we are at harmony with the Creator of nature, Jesus Christ. You must necessarily betray your principles, and do, whether you know it or not.

I am indeed talking of false Christians. Christianity is false, and we have 2000 years of history to prove it. “True” Christianity is the most false, the least humble, the most arrogant, and the least salvific. Read what God has to say about it in your bible. Moreover, the citation from Paul that you give can better be read as confirming that it is Christians so-called who are the liars he speaks of. God has indeed shown it to them, and the invisible is clearly seen in Nature, the true God, and the one who has for 2000 years not been glorified because Christians have invented an imaginary God who is really Satan to replace Him. They reasoned wrongly about this false God, darkened their hearts, professed to be wise but were fools, and made God in an animal form in their heads. To Christians, you included, God is a big man with a man’s thoughts, and his mini-gods have bird’s wings and bat’s wings to flit around fooling or scaring people, respectively. This imaginary God is obviously not a God because all Christians claim to understand Him and be His chum. Either they are mental or God is an idiot. You therefore have it all backwards and have done for all these centuries, yet you will not consider history, and evil, and whether Christians with convictions like yours are not actually contributing to it, if not causing it.

You offend nature just by your stance. How can you not when your very nature is at enmity with the Creator of nature? How can you properly respect the property if you do not respect and pay heed to the property Owner? Nature worship does not translate into noble and just deeds. Rather, it is the opposite:

For this reason God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error. And just as they did not approve to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things which are not fitting; having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, greed, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness; they are whisperers, slanderers, hateful to God, insolent men, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, having known the righteous judgment of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve of those who practice them,

Romans 1:26-32 EMTV

Doesn’t sound very peaceable to me.

Quite so. Paul was the man who distorted Christianity from the teachings of Christ, and I am led to believe that for Christians Christ is the God, not Paul. Christians have made Paul into God, and therein lies their initial mistake. God can hardly deny anything that is natural since He was the Creator, Christians tell us. How then can fornication be wrong, how can lust be wrong? It is lust that makes people want to fornicate, and fornication leads to procreation! What is wrong is failing to look after the children produced by the fornication, yet Christians faiths like Catholicism still urge people to have children they cannot provide for, and not to use contraceptive methods that can help the world to be less overcrowded and ensure that all children are wanted ones.

Paul had some problem. He admits to having a thorn in his side, surely a sexual problem as his weird views about a perfectly natural function show. In this clip, he blames every crime on to fornication. Do you believe that God gave up people to Satan? If he did then God is Satan, is He not? The catalogue Paul gives is a catalogue of Christian wickedness. I use God in much of this discussion to please you because God is a demiurgos, an artificer, but Nature is a Goddess, a mother, She gives birth. We would be much better people to be freed of guilt because doing what comes naturally cannot usually be wrong. It is wrong when our basic nature as social animals is neglected in favour of atavistic, selfish ones. Christianity is an attempt to get people to be properly social human beings, not greedy and selfish ones. That is what love is about, but we cannot fail to love all of what you say is God’s creation. But it is to be loved in its own right, not bypassed for a figment of the human mind.

That is why you and all your fellow Christians, whether you like them or not, are wrong. Turn again! Dick Whittington. Well, it is the season for it!

You treat us as though all we have is mere opinion and misconceptions, born out of environmental and social conditioning and the like. Isn’t that where your opinion is coming from? Or are you claiming that you have transcended your environment, and if so, how have you been able to do that? What proof do you have that you are above these things? And can you provide an authoritative source, other than yourself, that verifies your thinking?

Christians always demand that their critics offer proof when they just believe with no proof except the delusion they call faith. It is a key element in their confidence trick. I believe in the rational scientific philosophy that relieved us of a 1000 year Christian dark age.

I have several profound advantages over you in my understanding. Firstly, I have been a heathen with a bit of an education, just like you, whereas you have never known Christ, the living God. You have no basis of comparison, as do I.

You are arrogantly wrong. I too believed in Christ, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as a child, but I grew out of childish beliefs as I matured. Christians accept that they have to remain children because Christ spoke of them as children. Similarly, they like to be called sheep for the same reason, and fools because that is what Paul recommended for Christian believers.

Secondly, coming to Christ, I found out how little I knew, and learned to shut my mouth, open my ears, and learn something. You have never learned to do this. Your mind is so bigoted and closed against Truth, Christ and the Bible, that you do not even bother to read anything we have written to inform yourself of the facts. You just go ahead and give your pre-programmed, time-worn answers, assuming you know what you are talking about, while opening wide your mouth and pouring out such nonsense and foolishness that many can plainly see that you are clueless and willfully ignorant.

You seem a patient man to want to argue with clueless and wilfully ignorant people, but as that description is far more aptly applied to Christians than to their critics, it is quite understandable. Unlike the emotional approach you have, I have approached Christianity coolly and rationally. I have looked into it over a long period, taking everything into account, but using what modern scholarship has revealed to us, not merely psychological fancies and ancient documents that you would call mythical if they were not central to your own convictions. So, again you betray your own arrogance and intolerance in speaking the way you do of my "nonsense", "foolishness", "cluelessness" and "ignorance" when you spew it out in every sentence.

For example, you say that all those who profess Christ begin by believing, and then go through doubts. You also say you red the beginning of my testimony, in which I proclaim I was raised as a secular and agnostic Jew. Christ and faith had nothing to do with my household, or my peers and social environment. So what kind of credibility do you think to gain by making grand pronouncements that overlook prominent facts that very simply refute you? The life I have led is not a product of my environment, as is readily attested to by the fact that none of my family or peers lives such a life to this day, thirty years on.

Everybody’s life is a product of their environment. There are several false statements about what I wrote, in this one paragraph, but I am well acquainted with the inability of Christians to argue with anything other than the straw men they like to set up to give the appearance to the ignorant sheep they want to convert that they are clever. I say nothing about your personal testimonies because I pointed out they were too tedious to read. I spoke about the “essentially identical ones” I have read, and they are the ones whose characteristics I outline. You want to brag that you are different, well fine, but even if it is true, the outcome sounds to be the same bigoted, intolerant, know-nothings that born again Christians particularly show themselves to be. I repeat that those who are not brought up as “believers” rarely convert. They already believed. Mostly, it is parental, but occasionally, the influence can be elsewhere. The psychology of it is well explored.

You talk about psychology easily explaining all religious conversion (you do not distinguish between true and false). Another agnostic secular Jewish friend of mine studying psychology at University said to me, after I had begun to believe and follow Christ:

Paul, according to the principles of applied human psychology, with what has happened in your life [some details in my testimony], you should be an absolute basket case.

He made that statement to me because he observed that I obviously was not a basket case, and what was then has continued, only getting better because the Lord is here to deliver us from sin-dementia into a sound mind. Five years ago my landlord, an atheist holistic doctor with many years of experience, said I was the most well-adjusted person he knew. Now, I do not go by any man’s estimation of me, but since you do, there you have it from one of your authorities.

You sound as if you are rather desperately trying to convince yourself and offer these testimonies in evidence. It does not stop you from sounding like a “basket case” in this correspondence. You remind me of the story of the official visiting a mental hospital and chatting amicably for twenty minutes to a man he took to be a doctor, until he asked whether he would help him escape from Elba. I have no idea what the purpose of the word “sin” is before your use of the word “dementia” but your impression of a sound mind sounds quite like it. To spell it out, some people can seem to be sane when they are mad. In my opinion, anyone aho believes in invisible buddies are insane, but they can seem as sane as anyone else when they keep it to themselves.

This I do know and can proclaim is true by the grace of God in Christ Jesus: The path I am on has proven to be no fly-by-night fluke and is proof of the Higher Power and Authority of God, transcending the science of psychology that you cite as your authority.

Isn’t that what they all say?

You make absolute statements that are unprovable, which makes them inadmissible and useless. Take away such generalizations and there goes the entire structure on which you have built all your arguments and life’s work. For example, you write: “I have noticed over the years that Christians are always right, and always arrogant about it…”. Obviously you are wrong, because we, as Christians, have admitted to being wrong about many things. That is how we became true Christians in the first place! We left behind our entire social structures and support systems as a testament of their wrongness and our wrongness in them. Furthermore, during our sojourn since turning to Christ we have been corrected on many things. Read enough on our site and you will find this to be well documented. Repentance and change is the vital essence and nature of the true walk of faith in Christ, a continual stripping away of lies and unreality as one progresses into greater light, with error and wrongness readily admitted.

The whole of Christian belief is absolute and unprovable, yet you have the dishonesty to criticize me for allegedly making such statements. That is typical of you Christians. It is like your perpetual demand for proof when you have none for your own fancies, and your incessant demand for authorities when you will ignore verifiable proofs for the “authority” of an ancient and often demonstrably wrong book. As I said already, your God has to be an idiot, or you have to be idiots to believe in him. It is obviously wrong to me, and anyone modern. Believing in a rabbit’s foot to bring you good luck is a false belief, and believing in an invisible buddy to make you good or bring you some unnecessary salvation is no different, arguably worse because you are believing in nothing. That is why belief in God is such a good scam.

Where have you ever admitted that you have been wrong? For example, let’s see if you will admit that you have been wrong in the false assumptions I am pinpointing in this letter. Fat chance! You will never admit to being wrong because you do not want to lose your life. Admitting you are wrong destroys the whole superstructure on which you justify your existence. You have no impartiality or love of Truth. You are only partial to yourself and what you believe, the very same thing of which you accuse others.

Right again. You have misconstrued what I wrote, even though it is there in black and white, and then want me to rescind what I said. If I have been less than precise, then I willingly do rescind it, and will try, as I am doing, to say it more clearly. As for serious admissions of being wrong, I have admitted it here for you. I do not believe in Santa Clause, though I once did. I was wrong. I cannot see how this will make me “lose my life”. The Christian scam is that you must believe a figure exactly as realistic as Santa Claus to live forever. Well, think about it for a moment. Living forever would leave you in a celestial asylum, if you are not already writing from one. If God has lived forever, then it is hardly surprising that he has gone doolally an eternity ago, and was responsible for all the wickedness of the Jewish scriptures that Christians purloined as their own and called the Old Testament. Eternity is a considerably long time to amuse yourself.

Go ahead, though, if you will, and prove me wrong. I will be the first to admit it, and will be very thankful to be corrected in this matter. It would be wonderful if you could admit to being wrong! You go on: “…but my own, reading of the gospels, flawed as they no doubt are, but as good as yours, tell me that Christ expected Christians to be humble.” If your understanding of the gospels is flawed, of what value are your conclusions about it? I will show how your estimation of your understanding is correct; it is indeed in error. If mine is flawed, it is up to you to prove it. You have done no such thing. You complain about false religious authorities who demand that others believe their rubbish, but you are no different. Who are you that your word is to be taken and believed as the truth, even after you tell us it is very likely not? Which Mike are we to believe, the one who admits he does not have perfect understanding or the one who behaves as a pope and expects his word to be believed, forget any proof, otherwise he becomes incensed?

The one who sounds incensed is you, and you are the one who expects to be believed precisely because there is no proof of imaginary beings. Your gospel argument is called sophistry. I pointed out that my reading of the gospels is quite as good as yours even if it is flawed. You have no better claim to have read them correctly than I have. I can read words, and the words are plain enough. You often will not accept them, because they are too plain, and the plain reading makes you and those like you anything but Christians.

The problem for you is that you do not understand what “humble” means, or, on the reverse side, “arrogant”. You say that Christ expected Christians to be humble. Firstly, you are mistaken because you speak of Christ in the past tense, as if He laid down a law and is no longer present. Secondly, you are mistaken because you speak of Christ as though He depended on the carnal man to be humble, who could not be so even if his life depended on it. Thirdly, you do not know or recognize that a Christian is one in whom Christ dwells, so it is His nature, and not man’s fallen and corrupt one, that prevails.

Definitions are easily looked up in a dictionary, and inasmuch as God used words to tell His followers how to behave, I can understand God as well as you can. Perhaps, indeed, better, because I take words to mean what they say and you take them to say what you want them to mean. “The first will be last and the last first” was what Christ meant by being humble. You think you are first! Christ no doubt lives in your head, but the author of the words we are discussing died 2000 years ago. If men cannot be humble then why would God expect them to be humble. Is God asking what is impossible? You are defining for yourself what the incarnate God of the bible tells you to do. It is too hard for you so you ignore it. Nevertheless, it is what your God, not Paul, told you to do. You have failed. Lastly, if it is Christ’s nature to be humble, then you ought to be, if indeed Christ dwells in you. You still fail. Too bad. Maybe you should stop preaching your own idiosyncratic line, and begin practising what God preached. It sounds a better way to be saved to me, but you will know better.

According to your definition of humility, Jesus Christ was the most arrogant of men, because He knew the Truth and spoke it with authority, not prefacing His statements with disclaimers about having a flawed understanding. He never once said, “In My opinion…” He always said, “Here is the way it is.” He quoted the Scriptures, which you deny, and taught from them as the sure, authoritative Word of God. How is it that you would appeal to what He said when you clearly dismiss Him as an egomaniac and deluded fool? How can you call His followers into account for being like Him, as though He would disapprove of this? Your reasoning is confounded.

Well this same man you call Christ, God and the Son of God, denied as plainly as possible that he was God, but you still say he is. He denied fairly plainly that he was the son of David but you cannot understand that, and go around saying he was (or is). You say that Christ spoke the Truth, but the only evidence you have that anything he said is true is the bible. Is the bible your God? Is the bible inerrant? Can anything in this imperfect world be perfect? You believe the bible is true and so you believe in Christ and God and therefore you believe the bible. Clever, eh? Should it be necessary to show that Christ did not speak the Truth, he believed the scriptures were absolutely true, so anything in them that is not true therefore proves Christ false. That is why you have to believe they are inerrant. More and more of the bible is being exposed as false, but you will not accept it. You cannot. Your beliefs depend on it. You would rather believe an ancient and flawed book to the world around you. That is why Christian gambling and second hand car millionnaires spend their small change supporting creationists against science.

It is not arrogance to believe, know, and speak the truth; that is humility. It is not humility to give dogmatic opinions about things you do not know; that is arrogance.

I accept as true what is verified not what some ancient prince, priest, or prophet allegedly wrote when people believed illness was caused by demons and good fortune by angels. All that false believe in angels and demons left us bereft of proper investigation into Nature for over a millennium and when people suffered misery despite their prayers. You are arrogant to propound failed nostrums. I accept what anyone intelligent today accepts—biology, mathematics, physics, medicine, and so on. You stick to mythology, if you like but keep it to yourself.

You write: “Well, every Christian believer has the same idea. They all of them, every one, know God but no one else does.” Had you red enough of my testimony to know what you are talking about, you would have seen that I was a Christian when I met Victor, and I did not have the reaction you describe. By the grace of God I listened to what he had to say and acknowledged that it was from God. There is agreement in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord through Victor had things to tell me that I did not want to believe, but had to believe because they were true and I knew it. You believe only what you want to believe, and that makes you a damned hypocrite for condemning others who do the same. You have never had to go through the death throes of receiving the Truth. That is your problem and shortfall. Death will cost you everything, and you fear that rather than love the Truth. You resist the Truth and are found to be a liar.

This Truth that you speak of with the initial capital letter is the Christian word for lies. Truth is verifiable, and any good God could not advocate lying as the truth, let alone the Truth. Goodness cannot involve lies, so the religion of lies cannot be God’s. The ordinary man believes what is shown to work, reliably, repeatedly. It is what makes aeroplanes fly. No Christian since Peter (allegedly) flew on faith alone, and sensibly no Christians today attempt it. Christian truth is no different from faith in a charm bracelet. It might have some marginal benefits. We call it the placebo effect, and Christian belief might have that. It is what I have said above, it is psychology, but you try to make it into magic or mysticism. I imagine I shall not have many years left to go, but I do not fear death, and I doubt that many people do when they come to it. It is, after all, natural. Eternal life is unnatural. People should fear that, and, if you have it wrong, and Satan is the God you are worshipping, hell is what you are praying for. Eternal life must be hell. The antidote to it is death!

If you are saying that only Christians know God, that is true (of true Christians), because Jesus Christ is God. When you know Christ you have come to know God. Jesus said, “He that has seen Me has seen the Father,” and “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one can come to the Father except through Me.” You pose this question: “It seems to a lot of us who do not share your delusions that Christianity is Satanic. How can you demonstrate conclusively to me that it is not? that your impression of receiving God is not really receiving Satan, a being described as the most subtle of God’s creation. In other words he is cleverer than you are and cleverer than you think.” If it is delusional to believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, Who laid down His life for the sins of the world and took it up again after three days in order to justify those who believe, how is it you believe in Satan, one of God’s creatures that you also cannot see? Does that not, by your reckoning, also make you delusional?

Did I say I believed in Satan? I am asking you to justify your own certain knowledge that Satan has not tricked you. You are the one who believes in Satan, remember? Some Christians believed the crucifixion was a Satanic trick, but you are certain it was not. Is it false that Satan can appear as an angel of light? You are not humble enough to understand what I am talking about, and you do not care because you think God is an idiot. And, no, that does not mean I believe in God, it means that you believe in God the Idiot, because God is supposed to be almighty but he is not mighty enough to realize that you are not doing what he came down to earth to tell you. He said “blessed are the meek”, not “Blessed are arrogant twits who think they know more than I do”. The arrogant Paul is your God.

But I can tell you this: You are right, Satan is cleverer than you are, and has you right where he wants you. He is there for this very purpose, to rule over all the children of pride. We, being raised up in Christ to sit with Him on His throne, are under Satan no longer. We have peace and unity amongst ourselves, a sure sign to the world:

By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

John 13:35 EMTV

You are utterly incapable of self-criticism. It is another Christian fault, yet you call others proud. You have the sin of pride because you are sure you are “saved”. Sorry chum. It is not that easy. Read your bible. And who is it that you are raised up in to make your so proud? Are you sure that Christ of yours is the God you think?

You do not have the love of God or the peace that comes by His love, a sure sign of whose rule you are under. Though the world is filled with false Christianity manifesting the same disunity as you do, that in no way negates the true. It only makes it shine all the brighter.

I could have sworn I read just now that you Christians have unity among yourselves, and here you are, a few words later, saying there is a false Christianity. How can you be sure you have the right one? You seem to think that many professing Christians have it all wrong, and are ruled by another, but not you! Yet you are not deluded, it is all the others, and people like me who are deluded. I am sorry, I cannot help you escape, Napoleon, you must do it yourself.

It really does not help your cause that you are so ill-informed in your opinions, Mike, and you can do no other. You write: “…yet you will not consider history, and evil, and whether Christians with convictions like yours are not actually contributing to it, if not causing it.” A great deal of the material on our site considers those very things, addressing the errors and false claims of popes and other religious imposters who have come in the Name of Christ and others and who have brought great bloodshed and suffering on humanity. Those are not Christians like us because they are not Christians, period, and we have proven it. They are counterfeit. You deny the counterfeit, and the Real. You cannot tell the difference. You are a broken thermometer, worse than useless, spilling toxins wherever you go. You are no less to blame for the problems of humanity than the religious you condemn, for, as I have shown, you also act like a pope, making proclamations in your ignorance and presenting them to the world as though they have been dispensed from the throne of God as gospel truth.

You are prone to exaggeration, my friend. I cannot issue papal bulls that the Catholic must obey, and nor do I invent churches that issue the same sort of infallible rules, as you seem to want to do. I offer my views as they have come to me in my life, and you and others can take them or leave them. We humans got where we are by adapting, not by being railroaded on sectarian lines by those crazed with power, thinking they had God pulling their strings. Anyone with that in their head is a madman whether it is the pope, Bush, Blair or you. I am not, thankfully, blessed with any such Truth! I have said above that I can read, and I have read what the Christian God said and did in His incarnation, and that should be your own personal standard. As soon as you start judging others, you have had it. The Greeks said, “Know thyself”. It is precisely what Christians never know.

Here is a good example: “Paul was the man who distorted Christianity from the teachings of Christ, and I am led to believe that for Christians Christ is the God, not Paul. Christians have made Paul into God, and therein lies their initial mistake.” Spoken just like a pope. However, Paul did not distort the teachings of Christ. Show us where he has and we will show you where you are wrong. Give one or two examples from the Scriptures with specific quotes.

I never realised that Popes hated Paul so much. I have a longish page on Paul’s teaching. As you are always telling me to read your testimonials, I shall say to you, “Read it”. As for quick examples, what are we to do in respect of the authorities? Paul said we should be submissive and obedient to them (eg Titus 3:1), but God in his incarnation overturned tables in the temple courtyard in defiance of the authorities. If Christ had obeyed Paul, he could not have done it. Paul utterly falsely told Christians they would be saved from future judgment. That is not at all what Christ taught. He was so dramatic about it that he said it was preferable to tear out an eye lest you sin by it. So, God incarnate warned that you had to be constantly on guard, you, each of you, personally. You have no time to judge others. You were to look to your own salvation, and the wrong path and gate were broad, and the right one narrow. You lot think you are walking across a broad and wide bridge, contrary to what God taught, just because Paul assured you merely professing Christianity was enough. Too bad, again. God incarnate did not advocate faith alone, and if he did, he had no need to come to earth because Paul could have brought the message. The significance of Christ being God is that His authority is absolute but all of you Pauline Christians mainly ignore Christ. A young man asked what he had to do to inherit the kingdom of heaven. Did Christ say just have faith? Read it. It is in the bible. It is God’s own prescription for salvation, if Christ is God.

We do recognize the revelation Truth that Brother Paul was given in Christ to preach to the world, and together with him (and with all those who believe), we worship the One Paul presented as our Lord and Savior. Prove that we worship Paul, with specifics. You have plenty of material to work with on our site, so you have no excuse for not backing up your words with evidence.

It is a revelation Paul claimed, by claiming he had received a vision. Any rogue or madman could make any such claim. Why is it necessary, when you have God’s own words bound in the same book? I have already given examples just now, not that it will deter you. We have both agreed that the bible tells you that Satan is clever.

On the subject of Paul, here is an example where you misinterpret his words. You write: “Paul had some problem. He admits to having a thorn in his side, surely a sexual problem as his weird views about a perfectly natural function show. In this clip, he blames every crime on to fornication.” You assume wrongly that Paul had a sexual problem, based on your misreading of the clip, Romans 1:26-32, and not giving any consideration to the previous verses in the same chapter that were also quoted in my letter to you, in which Paul identifies man’s problem as suppression of the truth and thrusting God away for this cause. Paul goes on to list over twenty fruits and wrongful attitudes resulting from this abandonment of God, of which fornication is only one. The person who is obsessed with fornication and is having a sexual problem is not Paul, but you.

Can we clarify something here? Is salvation by faith alone, or by obeying the catalogues of laws or rules that Paul lays down here and all over the place? I thought Paul abrogated the law of God, but then he makes up a whole lot of new ones while at the same time telling Christians they are saved by faith. I expect you can explain it away, but for anyone rational it is incoherent. Anyway, Paul does repeatedly prescribe explicit rules and sexual matters are high among them, even though sexual matters are private ones. Paul had a thorn in his side, and was excessively prudish sexually. It seems quite possible that he had doubts about his own sexuality, and that would explain his unnatural concern with what should not concern him.

In identifying fornication as sin, Paul was not speaking ill of sexual intercourse any more than a judge sentencing a bank robber is speaking ill of money. You do not seem to really know what fornication is. You write: “God can hardly deny anything that is natural since He was the Creator, Christians tell us. How then can fornication be wrong, how can lust be wrong? It is lust that makes people want to fornicate, and fornication leads to procreation!” I have to ask myself here if I am conversing with a moron. It would make the stupid things you say far more understandable, rather than if it were to turn out you are the highly intellectual person you present yourself to be.

Ah! How much more comforting it is to be a moron for God. Paul made a big thing of fornication which is defined as unlawful sexual intercourse, meaning for a Christian that you are not married. Well, at the time most people were not Christians and so could hardly avoid fornicating. Many of his audience were Jews and they had a law given to them by God, so they knew what fornication was under the law of Moses, but how could your average Greek care what he was on about, and why should Paul care about them? The truth is that Paul often used fornication, as Jews did then, to mean ungodliness in general, and that is why he lists other sins under this heading. The Greeks still did not know what he was on about, and so it came into Christianity that sex was his main target, and who can say otherwise? All we can do is think what God could care about it. God really could not bother an iota. Sex was supposed to be His punishment to Adam and Eve, so why would he want to stop it? Only Christians are bothered because they all of them use Christianity to reflect their personal distaste for sexuality. It is psychology again.

If you really are so smart in this world, it only proves the Word of God and vindicates His wisdom:

The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are useless.

1 Corinthians 3:20 EMTV

So, “The Lord knows the thoughts of morons to be useful” and you are attending to every word of an accepted moron. To praise foolishness is hardly something that God could do, is it? After all, he made us in His own image with a brain. Does that come to you as a revelation? Christians think their brains are given by the Devil because they are obviously not supposed to use it, and Paul says so several times, knowing that they were indeed morons, and so they have remained. Try defying Satan and using your head.

You will have come to the place where you acknowledge you know nothing, just as we have, before you will know anything of value.

Just the first.

Fornication is illicit and unlawful sexual relationships. That includes adultery, homosexuality, and sex outside of the God-ordained marriage relationship. These activities are wrong. Just because you have an urge to do something does not make that thing good or right. Are you telling me that you have never learned that, or to control your urges? Apparently you have not as you need to. You resist and deny Reality, but Reality does not go away. You say:

Marriage is a sacrament of that Pauline Church of yours. God made people sexual long before any marriage was invented, and when it was it was for priests to get money out of perfectly natural and necessary functions of being human. Society should have sanctions against those who do not support their children, not against those who have sex. If they have sex without having children that burden others in society then sex is no concern of anyone else. As for homosexuals, that too seems to be natural, and in early human societies homosexual men will have had functions without being a threat to the dominant males. I know you will hate any such suggestion, but what consenting men or women do together in private is none of your concern or mine. The trouble is that you have a thoroughly unnatural concern in what others are up to, to the exclusion of your own salvation. Physician! Heal thyself.

“We would be much better people to be freed of guilt because doing what comes naturally cannot usually be wrong.” Does this mean you disagree with the Ten Commandments? Carrying your foolish reasoning along, you might find nothing wrong with murder because you get so angry you could kill someone. Did you know that God gave the Law to us through Moses, the man of God? Are you of the same mind as Hitler, whose goal it was to rid the world of the people of Moses, those who brought us what he called a “guilty conscience”? Your thinking is very similar to his:

The Jews have inflicted two wounds on the world: Circumcision for the body and conscience for the soul. I come to free mankind from their shackles… The Ten Commandments have lost their validity… Conscience is a Jewish invention. It is a blemish like circumcision… Mein Kampf

Heil Mike?

You get more pathetic as you go on, Mr Cohen. Cohen by name, cohen by nature, eh? Morals are a set of standards that people are encouraged to adopt because they are necessary for society to function. God has nothing to do with them, nor has elitist ideologies whether Nazi or Christian. Historically, it is hard to distinguish them. The Christian God advocated equality through the spirit of poorness. It was the poor who were blessed not the rich. Being blessed meant they would enter God’s kingdom, for your information, not merely a word meaning they were vaguely appreciated. There was no room in God’s kingdom for a rich man. The reason is evident. No one can get rich without someone else being deprived of the same amount of wealth. The rich were exploiters of humanity’s efforts, and they took to themself unnatural amounts of power. That is why Christ overturned tables. God was not rewarding the rich but the poor. The rich were rewarding themselves. Now, if you have not read this in your bible, whatever EMTV means, then I suggest you read a more conventional one.

Moses is a myth. He is a Jewish Aeneas or King Arthur. He was invented about 300 BC. I do not deny, though, that the tale has lessons and morals in it. Most myths do. The ten commandments are rules for people living together in society. They are generally quite good rules, but then society has not fundamentally changed in several thousand years. Ancient societies were bound by their beliefs in particular gods. Now there is no need for any such belief. We have moved on, but plainly, a successful society is one in which people can be secure. It is the lack of personal security in the USA that makes them insanely devoted. Their rulers know it, but encourage it for political reasons. The neocons openly admit it, but Christians follow Paul, and remain fools. Hitler was a devout Catholic Christian. Stalin, for your edification, was training to be a priest before he became a Bolshevik. Do try reading a bit, even if it is your own bible which you cannot seem to comprehend, even if you do read it, and that I doubt.

Again, had you red my testimony you would know that fornication is wrong and brings suffering to humanity. Now having been delivered of this sin, how grateful I am to know the difference between right and wrong. If only you knew the difference between right and wrong, you could open your eyes to the devastations caused by adultery, as just one example of the bitter fruits of following your lusts. You mentioned unwanted children. How about unwanted pregnancies and abortion? You think there is no price to pay for your sins? You are a fool.

You implied above that I was the one who had the sexual problem, now you admit you had it, and think you are rid of it. Perhaps you get rid of it by attacking all those who are still enjoying it. It is what they call the dog in the manger! Right and wrong has little to do with sexuality. It is to do with how we treat each other in society, if society is to be beneficial to us all. That is why the Christ of the gospels wanted people to love each other. He did not say hate everyone who enjoyed sex. You are to love everyone as your brother, or better still, to do unto others what you would have them do unto you. There is no need for unwanted pregnancies these days, and if they happen but the children would be left destitute then there is nothing wrong with abortion. Abortions that are not medically necessary, are the irresponsibility of people like Christians who force young women to hide their condition until it is too late. Most unwanted pregnancies can be ended as soon as they are noticed. It is hardly an abortion. What always astonishes me about you hypocrites is that you whine on about foetuses scarcely big enough to see, but happily murder people by the tens of thousand in your pseudo-religious crusades, like Bush’s so-called war on terror. You are the Nazis, not me.

The fool has said in his heart, There is no God! They acted corruptly; they have done abominable works, there is none who does good.

Psalms 14:1 MKJV.

This citation is not referring to your nature god, but to the Creator and Omnipotent Ruler Who does all things, Who has spoken to us, as He has many others over the millennia. You worship the ear, but we worship the One Who made it and speaks to it, Whom you call a “figment of the human mind”. And you call us arrogant!

And here is the evidence. Read a little Christian history without being sick. I have some of it on my pages. Nazis were human by comparison. They killed quickly and efficiently, Christians chose the slowest and most painful deaths, burning.

You pose a question as though you have us outwitted, so smart you are. You think to have it all figured out, even with your flawed understanding. We can answer your question, because our understanding is not flawed; we have the mind of Christ.

And this is not arrogance and pride? You truly are a fool.

You ask: “Do you believe that God gave up people to Satan? If he did then God is Satan, is He not?” Satan is no more God than the state warden is Governor of the state. Tossing garbage into the fire does not make me the fire, though I have authority of the fire and the burning of the garbage. How foolish is your nonsense! Satan is a servant of God, as I have already said, given to rule over those like you, who are proud resisters of Truth, trusting in themselves rather than God. Satan has no autonomy but to do what his Lord created him for and sends him to do. Does this mean that God is over all evil? Yes, it does:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:6-7 KJV

We are here by His will, Mike, and He has given us this golden opportunity to shed His glorious Light on your darkness. He has done this without your permission, though you have earnestly asked for it. What could be more marvelous than that?

Nothing, if you did it, but you spread more darkness and misery and so you always have, while at the same time being convinced you are righteous. That is why you are ruled by Satan. You cannot see yourselves, you cannot use your brains, you cannot love anyone except yourselves, and take it upon yourself to judge others contrary to everything God taught, if Christ is He.

You are caught in your own trap, over and over. Every time you speak against the work of God, you further entangle yourself. No doubt an endless existence would be sheer hell for you, as you get progressively more confused and confounded. That would never do, and God has much better and greater things in mind. Regarding Him, one of the first things you must know, if you will refer to the Bible and call on others who profess faith to follow it, is this:

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts”.

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV

Unless you have the mind of God, you cannot comprehend the meaning or intent of God as expressed in Scripture. It is an inaccessible, unopened book to you. We are here to open it to you and others. Whether you reject or receive it is not ours to determine or demand. We are not like the Catholic Church or you, who think that others are fools not to agree with you.

You are evidently claiming to have the mind of God. The “Scripture” is closed to me but open to you. That is the very delusion that all of you Christians have. You all think you are God, and you, and only you and your friends with common thoughts can think like God. God’s thoughts are higher than your thoughts and his ways higher than your ways, He says clearly enough here, but you are the exception. The reason why religion is dangerous is because any number of ordinary mortals in history have decided that they understand God, but no one else does. It is not a humble thing. Quite the opposite. To understand the brain of God is to be God, and that does not differ from thinking you are Napoleon. It is insanity. On your last point, it is Christians who like to brag about how foolish they are. The rest of us are rather glad that we can use the organ inside our head in conjunction with the senses we have to come to conclusions about the world we live in. Reaching conclusions about invisible worlds known only to God, and of course, yourselves, is this same illness—dementia.

Why do we answer you then, when it is clear you are not a reasonable man, a mocker and blasphemer? We answer for the sake of Truth and for the sakes of the many that need to and will hear these things in order to have their eyes opened to the empty and bitter arguments of frustrated atheists.

You had better define the terms you are using because they are not the normal definitions, though blasphemy, you can keep. It does not apply to me because I am not a believer in your God, and, if your God is indeed God, He is quite capable of punishing me Himself without people like you who think you are God doing it for him. A reasonable man begins with sensible things and from them, using logic, draws conclusions. You begin with the delusion that you know the truth and end up proving it, a somewhat circular, and utterly unreasonable approach to anything. Truth is not arbitrary, yet it is for you, and you just happen to be the ones who have it, you think. Opening anyone’s eyes to this truth is the same as sticking your thumbs into their eyes and gouging them out. Everything you say is assumptions justified with ancient citations from faulty texts.

The great error you continue to commit here is that you do not differentiate between false religion and true. In other words, you do not distinguish between the inventions of men and the work of God. You look only at those who use the things of God for personal gain and thereby dismiss God. You should be dismissing the former and retaining the Latter, instead of rejecting Him and using the corruption of others as an excuse to justify you in your own sinfulness.

I do not distinguish between false and true religion because there is no such distinction, except in your own faulty assumptions. Religion pertains to some unnecessary salvation in a dream world. All of it is false, and requires belief in what is to be established, it is unreasonableness.

You see God as evil because you are evil. You lump His words and deeds together with lying, usurping institutions such as the Catholic Church, and call it all evil. But the gospels and teachings of the apostles are as day and light to the night and darkness of false religion. The false religious crucified Jesus Christ, but you identify Him with them, as though they are one, when they are diametrically opposed. You speak as a servant of darkness and confusion.

Assertion after assertion based on no evidence, and indeed utterly stupid, since you have no idea who or what I am, never having met me, and do not seem to understand what evil actually is, if you think you can apply it to someone you do not know. Evil is something that is cruel and immoral. On what grounds can you say that about me? It is all part of your delusions, on your habit of projecting on to others of your own faults, a well known psychological phenomenon. You say I am the servant of darkness and confusion because in fact you are. You believe in ghosts and fantasies, yet are intolerant and obnoxiously abusive to anyone who accepts reality. I said nothing about God being evil. I think God is your delusion, so how could I think that something that does not exist has properties? You are the ones who cited the bible itself to show that God was responsible for evil. If the Catholic Church is a lying institution then you are too because what we have about Christianity has come to us by way of the Catholic Church. For hundreds of years it was the only church, and could make Christianity in its own image. If that is what it did, then your brand of Christianity is the same. All of it is lies.

You write: “Christians always demand that their critics offer proof when they just believe with no proof except the delusion they call faith.” We can argue that we have given proof, and do, but that you do not have the eyes or ears to perceive it. Obviously we will not “win” that argument as long as you are deaf and blind, but the more immediate issue and problem for you is, where is your proof? You talk big, but have nothing. When we require substance you don’t have, you resent it and try to fake your way out. We have answered you, and will continue to do so, but all you can do is bluster about “rational scientific philosophy.” These words might impress fools but those without pretensions will readily see that all you do is posture and evade our questions.

You can argue that black is white, and you do, but it does not make it true. I have not yet read any of this proof that you say you offer. All you offer are tedious quotations from an ancient book written in countries that Christians are currently helping to destroy in their pious self-righteousness, and painfully boring personal testimonies that show suggestibility and a lack of discrimination. I am plainly deaf and blind to your ghosts and demons, but that is because I am a normal human being living in the real world. You should try it. I do not need to give you the substance of rational scientific belief in these pages because there are millions of pages written about it, millions of books, millions of scientific papers, not to mention the modern world you actually live in that uses it, like this computer you have conversations by. If these words impress fools, then you are among them as soon as you use anything like your computer, medicine, cars, aircraft, fertilizers, and so on. The fact is that you are hypocrites, and Jesus had something to say about you. Read it.

You also go on the offensive, dispelling the notion (not that we had it) that intelligent discourse with you is possible. You say: “I too believed in Christ, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as a child, but I grew out of childish beliefs as I matured.” We have already told you that we did not believe in Jesus Christ because of, or during, our upbringing, whether we were indoctrinated by church attendance (which has nothing to do with Him) or knew virtually nothing about Him. Why do you refuse to inform yourself before opening your mouth and proving what a fool you are? “Whoever shall say to his brother, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (Mt 5:22)”.

Projection! I am telling you that I too believed in Christ as a child! I am not saying you believed as a child, but I did. I grew up, you never did, rather you grew down, adopting childish beliefs as an adult, and you seem proud of it. Inform yourself.

Linking Christ to Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy is plain silly. Must we spell it out? We will, not for your sake, but for those who may read this on our site, which we look forward to posting as Exhibit A of the total bankruptcy of reason, substance, good will and moral fortitude in rabid atheist attack dogs like yourself.

Thank you for your kind words, humble Christian.

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