Christians like to hear the voices in their own heads, it’s the ones in everyone else’s they don’t like.

Did Christians Destroy Classical Culture and Create the Dark Ages? 3

Adore what you once burned, and burn what you once adored.
S Remy to Clovis
cited by Pope Pius X (excommunication of A Loisy)

Bookburning? And the Rest: Chronology
Discussion

Abstract

Once the Empire was administered by Christians, public libraries had their Pagan books progressively replaced by Christian books. Christians closed Pagan temples and academies, destroying or scattering their libraries. Even as early as 235 AD Christians, like Sextus Julius Africanus, were in powerful and influential positions in Rome. By 391 AD, an edict of Theodosius prohibited visiting Pagan temples and even looking at their ruins. In Alexandria, Pagans revolted, led by the philosopher Olympius. They locked themselves inside the temple of the god Serapis—the Serapeion. Christians violently sieged and captured the building, demolished it, burnt its famous library and profaned its images. Christians try to deny that they ravaged the Pagan learning accumulated over the whole of previous history. Since this vandalism started the Dark Ages, it is difficult to prove…

Bookburning? And the Rest: Chronology

To help counter Christians in denial, a Greek correspondent, Florin Achaios, has submitted the following chronology of Christian persecution especially of the Greeks…

314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the gentiles (non-Christians). The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.
324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the Pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.
326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phœnicia, Baalbek, etc.
330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan temples of Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.
335 Constantine sacks many Pagan temples of Minor Asia and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers”. Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.
341 Flavius Julius Constantius persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists”. Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.
346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.
353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifices and “idols”.
354 A new edict orders the closing of all the Pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests.
354 A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”. First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire. The first lime factories are being organised next to the closed Pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the Pagans turns to lime.
357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).
359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.
361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the Pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the Pagan emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus.
363 Assassination of Julianus (26th June).
364 Emperor Flavius Jovianus orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.
364 An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”). Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the Pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in Pagan rituals, even private ones.
365 An Imperial edict (17th November) forbids the gentile (Pagan) officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.
370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire. All the friends of Julianus are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.), the philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated.
372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.
373 New prohibition of all divination methods. The term “Pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.
375 The temple of god Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.
380 On 27th February, Christianism becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman empire by an edict of the emperor Flavius Theodosius the Great (379-395 AD), requiring that:
All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter.
The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”. In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreements with the Church dogmas. Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, starts destroying all the Pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 years old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces the predominance of mental darkness over the human race.
381 On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights the Christians that return back to the Pagan religion. In all the Eastern Empire the Pagan temples and Libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws even simple visits to the temples of the Hellenes. In Constantinople, the temple of goddess Aphrodite is turned to a brothel and the temples of Sun and Artemis to stables.
382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.
384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with the local bishops and destroy the temples of the Pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.
385 to 388 Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop “Saint” Marcellus with his gangs scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra. Thousands of innocent Pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.
386 Theodosius outlaws (16th June) the care of the sacked Pagan temples.
388 Theodosius ordered to be burnt Porphyry's (c232-c300 AD) Treatise against the Christians.
388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.
389 to 390 All non-Christian date-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and Pagan temples, and lynch the Pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turns the temple of Dionysos into a Christian church, burns down the Mithraeum of the city, destroys the temple of Zeus and burlesques the Pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.
391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to Pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, Pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.
392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions against Pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares: “the ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island”. The Pagans revolt against the emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.
393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.
395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against Pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of the baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).
396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that Paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining Pagan priests and hierophants.
397 “Demolish them!”. Flavius Arcadius orders all the still standing Pagan temples to be demolished.
398 The Fourth Church Council of Carthage prohibits to everybody, including to the Christian bishops, the study of the books of the Pagans. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the Pagan temples of his city (except 9 of them that remain active).
399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all the still standing Pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, to be immediately demolished.
400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of the god Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.
401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch Pagans and to demolish the remaining 9 still active temples of the city. The 15th Council of Chalkedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their gentile relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).
405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of gray dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.
406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephessus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of goddess Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the Pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.
407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship
408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order together all the sculptures of the Pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of Pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the Pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the Pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting Pagans in Calama, Algeria.
409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.
415 In Alexandria, Egypt, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyrillus, attacks a few days before the Judaeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron. On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the Pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive.
416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last Pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.
423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the Pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.
429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian Pagans are persecuted.
435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and Pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.
438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the Pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!
440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.
448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned. All copies of Julian’s work which could be found were destroyed, and they would have been lost entirely if bishop Cyril of Alexandria (376-444 AD), had not cited extracts from the first three of seven of Julian’s books in his refutation of him, while admitting that he would not cite some of his srguments!
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).
451 New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death.
457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the Pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Norheast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.
482 to 488 The majority of the Pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.
486 More “underground” Pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians. The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the Pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.
528 Emperor Jutprada (Justinianus) outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the Pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).
529 Justinianus outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.
532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatic monk, leads a crusade against the Pagans of Minor Asia.
542 Justinianus allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to convert the Pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia, Minor Asia. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished Pagan temples.
546 Hundreds of Pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.
556 Justinianus orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.
562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.
578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify gentile Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).
580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the Pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.
583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by the Mauricius.
590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” Pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.
692 The “Penthekto” Council of Constantinople prohibits the remains of Calends, Brumalia, Anthesteria, and other Pagan/Dionysian celebrations.
804 The gentile Hellenes of Mesa Mani (Cape Tainaron, Lakonia, Greece) resist successfully the attempt of Tarasius, Patriarch of Constantinople, to convert them to Christianity.
950 to 988 Violent conversion of the last gentile Hellenes of Laconia by the Armenian “Saint” Nikon.

Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them!… published in Greek, Athens 1994, Diipetes Editions, ISBN 960-85311-3-6. Any similar material will be received gratefully.

Discussion

From Florin

Mike, I have the following comments on: AskWhy! on Did Christians Destroy Classical Culture and Create the Dark Ages? Christianity Revealed. A small erata: in 0780Bookburning.php it writes “850 to 860 Violent conversion of the last gentile Hellenes of Laconia by the Armenian ‘Saint’ Nikon”, like in www.wcer.org. But in www.ysee.gr which seems the original is “950 to 988 Violent conversion of the last Gentile Hellenes of Laconia by the Armenian ‘Saint’ Nikon”. Which one is true? There is others?

I checked the sources you mentioned. I notice that both were from the book cited on my page and they were given in full, but the one with the tenth century date for S Nikon seems to be correct and this is cited as the second edition published in 2000 whereas the other was the first edition published in 1994. So, my guess is that the second edition has corrected the error in the first. I shall do the same.

From James H

I was interested in your article on askwhy.co.uk about the destruction of Pagan manuscripts by Christians and was wondering if I could ask a couple of questions. I have been examining this subject for a while and have found some evidence that “orthodox” Christians deliberatedly destroyed the work of “heretics” and some magical texts. However, I can find nothing at all that supports the claim that Pagan literature went the same way. In particular you mentioned the demolition (it was not burnt down) of the Serapeum in Alexandria. That this happened cannot be doubted but it would appear the library was long gone at the time. Have a look at this essay that covers all the primary sources for the Great Library of Alexandria and shows that the Christian destruction was a myth relating to Gibbon reading too much into his sources (not a surprise!). The essay is here. May I ask what you make of this essay and also what sources you been able to find. Given that we should not expect the early Christians to be ashamed of burning the work of the devil their silence about the matter is even more surprising.

Thanks for showing me Bede’s site. I do not agree with your final remark. Early Christians might have been proud of it, but later Christians, after the rediscovery of learning, were not. Christians are always defensive about this and part of the reason it is problematic is because they are dab hands at destroying evidence, then pleading innocence. They had 1500 years in which to do it.

There is an expression to damn with faint praise but it works just as well expressed as to praise with faint damnation. General Pinochet, doubtless a faithful mass-taking Catholic, was extremely kind as a destroyer of the aspirations of the Chilean people because normally far more than 3000 people die when fascist Generals overturn the will of the people—as in Spain. This I heard on TV this very afternoon and illustrates my point. Praising with faint damnation is accepting responsibility for a small crime to exculpate oneself from a large one.

I say on the page, the Christians claim that the Serapeum library which they admit they destroyed was a small temple library, not the original massive library of Alexandria. It is sophistry, but even if the library was a fraction of what it was, it was still a massive source of ancient scholarship.

I took a look at Mr Bede’s pages, and I think they are well presented and well researched, but Christians are unrepentantly tendentious in everything they argue and Mr Bede is no less so than any other Christian. Put bluntly he is trying to kid us, as Christians do.

OK, the Serapeum was not itself torched, but it seems more likely that the truth in the story that the Moslems destroyed the library was that the Christians had fed the rolls to the holocausts of the bath houses. I do not deny in the piece I wrote that the library had been attacked before Theophilus ordered the destruction of the temple, but why should it be assumed that the books were not replaced, even if only in part? Why is Plutarch not to be relied on when he says that Mark Antony replaced 200,000 books from the library at Pergamum, yet should be taken seriously when he says that Caesar destroyed the library. This is what you would call tendentious!

Hirtius says Alexandria would not burn because it was made of stone, and this must be a lie because all cities burn, yet Caesar admitted freely that he burnt the Egyptian fleet in its harbour and the quays caught fire too. He made no such admission regarding the library. Like modern politicians, he did not want obvious blots on his CV, but it is not proof of dissimulation. I cannot see that Hirtius should be dismissed as he is except because it suits Bede’s argument. Stone built temples and palaces would not easily catch fire simply because a nearby quayside is ablaze. The owners or priests would be taking measures to make sure the fire would not spread. Assuredly, if Caesar had have wanted to incinerate the city, he could have done so. Preston Chesser, in eHistory, online, notes that Caesar had his public opponents and enemies, and indeed they eventually murdered him, so he could hardly have kept the scandal of burning a national treasure like the library from public debate:

“If he was solely to blame for the disappearance of the Library it is very likely significant documentation on the affair would exist today.”

The evidence is that he did not burn the Brucheium. It would have been a crime that could not have been hidden.

Mr Bede has to accept that Cicero does not mention the crime when he should have done—had it happened!—Bede’s assumption throughout. He simply dismisses the omission with a few half-hearted excuses. An argument from silence he tells us is to be doubted—unless it is a Christian argument from silence. Next he tries the technique of suggesting an answer—his answer—with a leading question. “Can we conclude that the library was no longer there?” It is a conclusion to do so, no doubt about that, but the conclusion that he dismisses is more likely—he could not describe it because the library was inside and quite possibly in the vaults, since it was not designed to take a large collection. The palace was built on an artificial mound fully one hundred steps above the level of the city. The mound had an interior cavity supported by arches, split into vaults and apartments. This is possibly where the bulk of the library was kept.

When Mr Bede talks about there being less information than earlier librarians had, according to someone called Mostafa El-Abbadi, there is no dispute—the library was not as big as it had been.

Bede blandly concedes that the relevant book of Livy’s history has been “lost”. Considering they tried to have the credit of being the preservers of culture and knowledge, the Christians were most careless about “losing” books. This makes my point, they were doing the opposite—they were destroying books. Seneca quotes Livy on this but Bede discounts it! Tendentious? Seneca says 40,000 books were destroyed, only ten percent of the smallest estimate of the original collection. That is why it does not suit the Christian argument.

The evidence of Dio Cassius is similarly dismissed. Tendentious! No one seems to dispute that the quay was destroyed and Dio Cassius says the books that were destroyed were on the quays, one imagines having just been unloaded or waiting to be loaded. The librarians collected books from everywhere they could, promising to copy and return them. That is how the library was built up and presumably repaired when books were damaged or destroyed. Furthermore, obviously an industry of copying books for other libraries existed to help finance and maintain the collection. No one disputes this. So there were quite likely to have been cargoes of books at the docks. Why should Bede cavalierly dismiss this possibility? It does not suit the Christian defence!

On the other hand, a passage in Gellius accepted by many as an obvious interpolation, is admitted as evidence because it says the entire library of 700,000 books went up in smoke. Ask yourself too, if this was an interpolation, who would be interpolating it? Christians controlled book production for well over a millennium.

He quotes Marcellinus and Orosius and, like the American attorney in court, implants the evidence that he knows will be overuled. It is both late and dependent on Gellius, or is it Gellius that is dependent on Marcellinus, being an interpolation? These historians are 500 years, almost, from the event. In any case, Orosius admits that the books were scattered by “our own men”—Christians—but please don’t notice that.

Mr Bede comes to his summing up, and calls one of the witnesses a “crony”. Tendentious? It is a “cover up”. Their “silence” about the crime is not “surprising”. In case you did not notice, Bede has decided that they had done it. Yet Caesar and other witnesses he has quoted, the most reliable ones closest to the events, do not confirm that the whole library was destroyed. It is the later ones who do that.

He tells us that the library did not exist at the time of Strabo “as a separate building”? He tells us that Plutarch, Seneca and Aulus Gellius all say the library was destroyed. Tendentious? Plutarch did, but also said that Cleopatra got 200,000 more books from Mark Antony to restore the collection (and this according to Gibbon, horrid man daring to criticise Christian saintliness). Gellius is quite probably an interpolation. Seneca says 40,000 books only were destroyed. Bede repeats that Seneca said “the books perished”, despite giving the figure. He also, paradoxically admits that scholarship continued! What were the scholars studying? What was the mathematician Diophantus trying to restore in 270 AD only to have his efforts frustrated at the hands of Aurelian? The Serapeum had become the main library, so it is hardly surprising that the original library should be described as a memory. But a library is its books not the building that houses it.

“Theodosius was emperor and energetically converting all his subjects to Christianity”. Bede makes it sound like a virtue. When communists allegedly ban Christianity, it is a dastardly crime, but when Christians ban Paganism, it is God’s own work. From where I stand they look to be exactly the same crime—people are being obliged to think in somebody else’s prescribed way.

“Alexandria remained a centre of scholarship and other libraries existed”. Well, well! “The Emperor Claudius set up the eponymous named Claudian to be a centre for the study of history and Hadrian founded a library at the Caesarean temple during his visit”. “The fourth century Bishop Epiphanius of Cyprus (died 402 AD) in his Weights and Measures (actually a biblical commentary!) says that there were over 50,000 volumes in the “daughter” library that he places in the Serapeum”.

Is Bede now trying to tell us that these libraries were not destroyed at all? Caesar did not destroy them because some were endowed by Caesars in the next century or two after him. The Christians never destroyed anything because they are so kind. The Moslems did not destroy any libraries because the sources are late and the stories are fantastic. My article points out that the destruction of books was not merely one act in 391 BC. It is merely that that one seems to have captured the popular imagination and is remembered. Justinian closed and dispersed any remaining schools or made them Christian and scattered their libraries in the sixth century to finish off the job.

That Marcellinus speaks of the libraries in the perfect tense is hardly convincing. If he is writing his history after the destruction and putting it in an historic present, he only needs to lose his concentration briefly to get this error. Equally it could be scribal. Marcellinus is also always called a Pagan, yet is sympathetic to Christianity. He supported Julian but was perhaps sensible enough to accept the signs of the times when Theodosius ruled, for the sake of his career. This is Mr Bede’s best point but hardly enough to build on.

Rufinus Tyrannius did not mention any libraries at all, yet Bede has just mentioned three that Caesar did not destroy. What then is the point of this? Is he trying to show that Rufinus is a bad reporter? He “puts the blame squarely on the local Pagans for inciting the Christian mob”. You mean there were Christian mobs? The same applies to Eunapius and Socrates. The Christian predilection for censorship now has to be considered too. The offending passages, if present originally, could easily have been excised at a later date when Christian publishers were more cautious about being depicted as barbarians.

Orosius is quoted to show there were no other libraries in Alexandria when Caesar burnt the books, but he says "today there exist in the temples book chests which we ourselves have seen and which we are told were emptied by our own men in our own time when these temples were plundered (and this is indeed the truth)." Mr Bede tells us Orosius is a “useless” historian. Wonder why!

Mr Bede tries to wheedle his way out: "Christians did empty some temples of books but we cannot go much further." Hope you are still alert. Why do we have to go any further? A Christian eyewitness (they normally believe anyone who claims to be an eyewitness) tells us just what we wanted to know! The chests of books were emptied by Christians when they plundered the temples. QED.

What was the rest of all this about other than blather and flannel aimed at apologising for the barbarism of Christian history? Christians know the tree is known by its fruit, and the fruit of Christian history is death, torture and destruction. They have to deny it and cover it up, but it is God’s Truth—deceit!

Thanks for your long and detailed reply but I must admit that I found it a bit of a disappointment. I asked if you had any sources for the Christian book destruction and you have only been able to tell me that Christians must have destroyed the evidence.

I do not get your point about evidence. I have a page for bibliography where I list all my sources for the whole site. If you want formal scholarship, why don’t you go to a university? I am a reporter, and my reportage has higher standards than many pseudo-scholarly books (in that they give endless footnotes to give an aura of scholarship). Unlike Christians, I am not an habitual liar, secure in the thought that lying for god gets them a place in heaven. And Bede quotes the relevant evidence on this topic, so what more do you want? You sound like a Christian. They will not accept any evidence however good it is because their faith is their evidence. I said the evidence has mostly been destroyed—by Christians! I showed that Bede’s interpretation of what remains is tendentious, but if you disagree, at least I cannot burn you at the stake.

Regardless of whether this happened it does not help from a historical point of view.

It helps the Christians. That is why they did it.

If we have no evidence then that is that. The lack of ancient texts today is adequately explained by 2000 years of war, neglect, accidental fires and decay. I certainly cannot take on an apologist with silence.

It shows how gullible you are. Do you seriously believe that all of those books, widely dispersed over an empire half as big as the US could have been destroyed accidentally by the means you mention? Was there only one copy of each book? My page points out that there were many libraries including private ones. I try to point out in my reply and on the page that large libraries ran an industry for producing books. To think that so many books could have been utterly destroyed not deliberately is puerile. Even if your apology for the Christians is true and the books went the way you say, it proves that Christians had stopped the manufacture of books, content in the knowledge that they would decay.

Bede is certainly an apologist but I found his essay was a fair piece of work.

I showed he was not fair, but your drift is plain to me. You will believe what you want.

On the Serapeum library he is right—it was almost certainly gone before Theophilus got his claws on it. The silence of Eunapius and the words of Marcellinus seem proof positive that Gibbon was mistaken.

Why was Gibbon mistaken? He agrees with Bede, stating very clearly that the old Library of the Ptolemies was destroyed. But Cleopatra started a new one with the help of Antony. I think it is unlikely that it was totally destroyed, but it does not matter either way, since many books were replaced and a large library remained. Antony’s gift was to start the new library, so plainly the procedure of collecting books from everywhere would have continued. It is, if you like, evidence that the Christians must have deliberately destroyed books that they all disappeared except for the selection Christians tolerated. The end of one library does not destroy all knowledge because much of it is repeated elsewhere and can be reassembled.

It was finding this out that made me keen to find any other evidence for ancient Christian book burning and I’m sorry you haven’t been able to give me any. I do not mean to lessen such crimes as the Inquisition and Crusades (for which we have warehouses of evidence—the new book on the Cathars may interest you) but we must stick to the highest standards of scholarship when cataloguing these matters. I fear that you are perhaps an anti-Christian apologist. This is all well and good but does not take scholarship very far. For that we need references and objective facts. Given the abuse of these concepts by fundamentalist Christians over the years it doesn’t help to find others doing the same thing.

You speak of references and objective facts, sounding just like any Christian apologist. They have destroyed the evidence and then claim there is no objective evidence against them. You read the travesty of an interpretation of evidence that they have presented, and believe it even when its utter bias is exposed. Though Christians bleat over an over again to their critics, like me, who say, where is Solomon? where is David? where is Moses? etc, etc, the mantra: “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”, denying that the absence of a whole culture can be explained away, will still use the failure of Eunapius et al to mention a library explicitly as evidence—conclusive evidence to you. The last word is that the Christians admitted the crime. If that impresses you less than someone not mentioning the library, you must examine your own thinking.

If you have read my pages and not noticed that I am utterly anti-Christian, your perception is faulty. Christianity has destroyed everything it could, including thousands if not millions of people, and created misery throughout the world for over a millennium of history. Anyone who can read that and, as you point out, it is not arguable, can hardly maintain that the highest standards of scholarship must necessarily remain neutral. Even scholars can come to a conclusion—that is the point of evidence. Only Christians pretend that this should be a polite debate. Christianity is respected in our society because its true history is unknown to most people. Bede’s article, and your own position, shows that they present what little evidence remains in a wholly tendentious way, to make themselves look saintly. Those who believe they were saints present them as saints. It is Christians who argue about being fair or scholarly, because they want to win arguments by tying down their opponents then jumping on them. Righting a wrong cannot be done by being neutral. This has to be fought the way you would fight any bully, using his own tactics. Only the bully’s friends would defend him. Regards, Mike.

Page Tags: Church Fathers, Bookburning, Classical Culture, Dark Ages, Barbarians, Books, Christian, Christianity, Christians, Church, Edict, Emperor Theodosius, Empire, God, Libraries, Library, Orders, Pagan, Pagans, Destroyed Temples

Last uploaded: 24 April, 2008.