AW! Epistles
From Steve H
Abstract
Wednesday, 03 September 2003
Mike, I have the following comments on: Christianity in Short Sentences - God’s Truth or Pious Lies? Science or Religion? AskWhy! Publications.
Your view is very wrong of God’s Word. Please read it on your own. God is very real and shows his great love for us by sending part of himself, Jesus the Son, too die in our place on the cross and going to hell and rose the third day, paying the price of sin for all, believers and unbelivers. Its believing in Jesus that saves all of us from hell. God created everything. Its his rules. Serve the devil directly or indirectly and hell will be your home forever or be saved believng in God and go to heaven. May God show you himself to you I pray in Jesus Holy Name Amem
I have no intention of believing silly myths whether they are Christian ones, Jewish ones or any other type of them. Myths were invented to impress legal and social ideas on to people before they could read and were essentially simple and unsophisticated. They are therefore obsolete in the modern world, unless you are among those who are simple and unsophisticated. I try to show the difference between truth and falsehood on the pages you were reading. The trouble is that Christians cannot even get that far.
PS, If God created everything, why did he create evil gods like the devil? He must be an evil God Himself.
“I have no intention of believing silly myths…”
The bible proves its self over and over to be the word of God for example, when Christ returns for His people, two will be in the field working and one will be taken and the other left. There will be two sleeping and one will be taken and the other left. Question: How can Jesus get one working in the field during the day and one sleeping at night in one moment? We of course know it is day and night at the sametime because the earth is round. There is no way people of that day would know the earth is round and the Sun shines on just one side as the earth turns. Another example in the Old Testament: God told His people not to eat different kinds of meat and fish because of the parasites animals carried that would wipe out His people. Another was to make a person leave the camp for seven days when that person touched a dead person or his clothes or beding, dead animals, sick person. The reason being of spreading disease. Humans could not have known how disease is spread or about parasites.
Plainly this sort of nonsense impresses you but not me. I do not accept your interpretation of the apocalyptic meaning, but it was certainly true that intelligent people in those days did indeed know the world was spherical. Eratosthenes even determined the circumference of the earth before his death around 200 BC, at least a quarter of a millennium before this gospel passage was written. So your assumptions for your own excuse are up the creek, unless the gospel writers were not intelligent.
The same is true of your OT assumptions, which have nothing to do with your idea of hygiene. The Jews thought certain things were unclean because they were taught to by the Persians who believed there were two creations, a good one and a wicked one. What was of the wicked creation was unclean. Christians particularly have been confused by this ever since, being quite unable to make up their minds whether the material world is good or evil. Please read a bit of history before you spout on.
“…whether they are Christian ones, Jewish ones or any other type of them. Myths were invented to impress legal and social ideas on to people before they could read and were…”
The Old Testament—Jeremiah 36:13: Then Michaiah declared to then all the words that he had heard when Baruch read the book in the hearing of the people
So you are giving me biblical support for what I say.
“…simple and unsophisticated. I try to show the difference between truth and falsehood…”
It looks like your spreading only falsehood and don’t have the faintest clue about the Truth. Please read the New Testament starting with Matthew first. You can then make your own judgment about the Bible and not relying on what other people are saying. OK
Christians do not know what truth means. That is why they constantly tell outlandish lies. I suggest you read a little before you spout on from your book of myths. I have written a lot of pages based upon a lot of reading of Christian tripe as well as well founded history and science. You have not the courtesy even to read what I have written, but then you are typically ignorant. It is a Christian trait.
“…on the pages you were reading. The trouble is that Christians cannot even get that far. PS, If God created everything, why did he create evil gods like the devil?”
The devil is not a god, only an angel who wants to be God. That’s why there is evil in the world. It all comes from satan. Satan was not created to be evil but choose to become evil. Satan then temped Eve which temped Adam. Satan told them if they eat of the fruit that God told them not to eat, that they would be like God knowing Good and Evil. This was the first sin that separated us humans from God the Creator. This can be read in the First book of the Bible—Genesis. Good Reading Mike
Read the definition of a god in your dictionary, my friend. You are attached to your childish myths, aren’t you? Am I wrong to believe that you think God is all powerful, omniscient and omnipresent? If He is these things, then He has the power of foresight, and, again, my understanding is that is what Christians believe. So, He already knew the Devil would turn to evil when He created this naughty angel. That means He knew He was creating evil. Only an evil God would want to create an evil monster and allow it to torment humans throughout history thereafter. The same argument goes for human people. God must have foreseen that they would be tempted by the evil Satan whom He had already created. He therefore knew that humans would also turn to evil, but created us nevertheless. Again He did an evil deed, knowing what He was doing. This God deliberately created evil more than once. He then blamed the creatures themselves for being evil! What a God this is. You ought to think a little beside just reading your nursery stories.
“He must be an evil God Himself.”
If God was evil, then the Bible would be a lie.
Wow! You are beginning to think. I apologise.
God is LOVE, HOPE, JOY, EVERLASTING LIFE, and much more, but He will send Jesus to remove the Christans before he judges the earth. I ’ll pray for you Mike, that you will KNOW GOD before you deny Him again.
I take back the apology. For Christians, it turns out that killing people is God’s wish, and untold numbers have been murdered by deranged Christians up until only a few centuries ago. Of course, you all conveniently forget about it to preserve your deceit that Christians are angelic. You can find pages and pages of arguments and historical detail, if you care to read it on my website. My guess is that you will not.
Mike this is a fight between good and evil. Right and wrong. If there is no moral authority (God’s Word) then there is no absolute right and wrong. It would be up to man to determine right and wrong. IF other people got in power they could change the law to say it was ok to kill.
This is an interesting paragraph which shows that you are not thinking clearly, like Christians in general. Take the last point first. Unless I am mistaken the fundamentalist Christian President of the United States of America has just fought a war in which he bombed people he did not like with 10,000 pound bombs from seven miles in the sky. Doubtless he thinks he has God’s permission or even instructions to do it. In short, he is the Christian leader of the most powerful country in the world and he is going about having people killed. He also does not understand such a crucial matter as justice, allowing him to say that the people held in the concentration camp in Quantamo Bay are “bad men” even though no evidence has been offered up before an impartial judge and jury to decide it. If you were concerned about your own soul, you should be complaining about your fellow Christians making up rules about life and death because it suits them—the very thing you think Christianity stops. It shows there are no moral absolutes, just as you said, but morality is devised to benefit all of us in society. It is a human construct, and it is up to us to make it work. The same is true of good and evil. These are our choices, they are not some sort of entity. We personally choose to be good or do good or be evil and do evil. We decide. Morality is whatever society decides to minimise the harm to us all when we make these choices. We therefore say that certain acts like murder and robbery are evil, and no one should do them. On the other hand blasphemy does no one any harm in itself, and so is rightly, these days, not evil.
Just because a person may be a Christian doesn’t mean I agree with everything they do. I do like many things about Bush and some I don’t. Thousands of people pray for Bush to make the right decisions all the time.
The point is not whatever it is that you like about Bush, it is that Bush is a Christian yet does just as he likes. You think there is some moral absolute but, if there is, then Bush ignores it even though he parades his Christian piety to the whole world. To use your own words, he has got into power and said it is OK to kill! This is contrary to what you say the value of Christianity is—to give an absolute morality. I want to know why you and the rest of the Christians in the US are not outraged that Bush is flagrantly ignoring everything that Christianity claims it stands for.
IF we as a nation become evil, life will become of little value. The antichrist will see to that when he gets on the scene.
If you believe this why are you doing nothing about it? Bush acts like the anti-Christ. He pretends to be Christ while doing devilish things. All Christians seem to think that as long as the devil calls himself a Christian he is all right.
Evil will demand to be worshipped and will rule the world. No love, no hope, no joy, all lies, the devil loves no one, but Jesus Christ loves you Mike. Mike he really loves you! He has payed for every sin you have and will comit. Just think of a relationship that a father and son has. He wants to put his loving arms around you and tell you “your forgiven my Son and I love you”. Please ask Jesus into your heart right now Mike.
I am very glad to hear all this from you, but you seem to be peculiarly interested in me when your own political leaders are leading Americans by the nose into hell. Christ told you to remove the beam from your own eye before you try to remove the mote from your companion’s. Christianity has become utterly divorced from real life in the beliefs of modern Americans. It is something that you roll your eyes about and bleat about piously, but has no bearing on what you do. “Thou shalt not kill”, God said through Moses, but you all insist on the right to carry lethal weapons. Carrying a lethal weapon is a temptation to use it, and thousands of Americans die from them every year. A few decades ago you wanted to kill slanty-eyed gooks. Now you want to kill hooky-nosed Arabs. You Americans understand Christianity as much as a vampire bat.
Mike, you don’t have anything to live for, here on earth, but you will live forever. Its up to you where, Heaven or Hell.
Mark 8:36: For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? For what should a man give in exchange for his life? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man also shall be ashamed of him, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Phil 2:11: and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I said before that this 2000 year old ranting does not impress me, even though it impresses you. You are no different in the least bit from the simple Moslems who follow the Mullahs and Imams and blow themselves up for a quick access to heaven. Like you, they believe in heaven, and they think they get there quicker by dying in a Jihad, or Holy War. They are certainly deluded but how do you Christians differ? Don’t answer. You do not!
They believe in a false god. A heaven with sexual rewards is wrong. The devil is at the center of Islam and its very sad the people can’t leave it if they wanted too.
So, all of those Christians who are waiting to die so that they can re-join an already dead lover in heaven ought to know that their human sexuality is forbidden there. Do the Christians of the USA know this? Should they all be joining monasteries and nunneries to get in the practice before they end up in this place where sex is verboten!? The truth of the matter is that neither you nor the Moslems know anything about heaven. You invent it to suit yourselves. As for which religion is devilish, what absolute standard am I to use to judge? So far as I am concerned, they are both devilish. That is what you do not get.
The quotation from Mark does not say that I will live forever in hell. Read it! It says that there is no profit in gaining the whole world and forfeiting your life. It plainly means that people who are not favoured by the glory of your celestial father die! They die and remain dead! You might wish to live for ever and ever but I do not. Anyone who had to live for ever and ever would be raving mad in a few thousand years. Maybe that is why God is not that good.
Your right it does not have the word HELL, but that is what it is saying. This is the Greek word for forfeit—Strong’s Ref. # 2210 Romanized zemioo Pronounced dzay-mee-o’-o from GSN2209; to injure, i.e. (reflexively or passively) to experience detriment: KJV—be cast away, receive damage, lose, suffer loss.
Sure. Loss of your life! Christianity has a false promise of life for those who say they are Christians, but everyone else will die. That suits me.
Here are some verses about Hell:
2 Peter 2: 4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Mt 18:9 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloom dungeons to be held for judgment.
Mk 9:43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. 44. [where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.]
Lk 12:4. And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5. But I will warn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. *Matt.10: 28. And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Rev 19: 20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:
Rev 20:10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; (THAT MEANS YOU MIKE) and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged (THAT MEANS YOU MIKE) out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.13. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14. And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. (Father God Please change Mike’s heart and mind, for him to have a place in heaven with the saints.)
Rev 21:8. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
Except for the second passage from Revelation, a book that all Christians love because of its primitive barbarity, all the other citations make it clear that there is no such thing as permanent torment in hell fire. In some, it is a dungeon where you wait for Judgement, and, in others, it is the punishment after Judgement, but it is not permanent torment, it is the second death—permanent death by being thrown into a lake of molten sulphur. All of this is not Christian except by robbery. The Zoroastrian religion had it all 500 years at least before Christianity was invented. You ought therefore to be a Zoroastrian if precedent in God’s revelations matters. I suppose it does not. Moreover, I have never been quite able to grasp how God loves sinners but wants to burn them forever in permanent torture, as most of you think. Perhaps sinners should think about it before they decide to join.
I want you to know Mike, I will be praying for you at times and others I will call on will pray for you. I don’t want you lost to the Devil. We are all sinners. I’m just a saved one. I pray in the name of Jesus Christ that the demons will leave you and stay away and an event will reveal God to you. I care what happens to you Mike.
You are like nearly all Christians who write to me. You are saved! For certain!! You should read your own bible, and take note that it emphasises in several important passages that salvation is not easy. Here are a few only:
Matthew 7:13: “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Mark 10:25: “Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?”
Matthew 24: “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”
Mark 10:21: “One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven.”
Matthew 7:1: “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged… ”
And many more commandments necessary to be saved. Jesus, the Christian God said these things. Was he lying? Today, Christians are too smug to be saved. You are too smug to be saved. James, called “the brother of the Lord”, a man who ought to know what his brother meant, explained it all clearly.
James 2:26: “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
Of course, you will find a way to justify your own smugness, but will your God?
It is not easy being a Christian. We can pray for strength, healing, forgiveness of sin, anything that would be ok with God.
Mark 10: 22. But his countenance fell at the saying, and he went away sorrowful: for he was one that had great possessions. (Jesus was pointing out the sin that was holding him back. This does not mean Christian people can’t have wealth, like Job did.)
Well, I just gave you several gospel citations of your own God about what wealth the Christian can have, but inevitably you ignore it all in favour of a reference to the Jewish scripture. Let me remind you again that your own God is said to have abrogated the law—Paul said it very often. That means that whatever is in the Jewish scriptures is false in Christian terms. How can Job’s lifestyle, a life that God thought for good or ill was worth punishing, be counterpointed against the person whom you as a Christian call God? It proves your hypocrisy.
If I have faith in God, yes I will have works from that believe.
You are not getting it again, Steve. James is clearly saying that works do not just come from faith, as you now say to suit yourself. “Works” are good deeds, and faith has to be consciously accompanied by good deeds in the view of the Brother of Christ. Most Christians have the delusion that by professing Christianity, they are made good automatically somehow. That is what is so wicked about it. That can only be the work of the Devil. “Faith without works is dead!” No one can be good automatically, and even Christ said that there is no one good except God when someone called him good. All of you US Christians accepting the political leadership of a man who blatantly ignores plainly set out Christian principles have been deluded. You ought to be worried, but none of you are. Devilish!
So Mike, are you telling me you lost your faith? The demons believe in God and know who the Son is, what happen to you? The verses you name, tell me you were in church somewhere at one time. Maybe in leadership? Satan hit you hard. Maybe You think God didn’t help you when you thought He should. All I see inside you as a person is blackness. I think you can come back if you choise. Satan uses you all the time. Its time for you to turn back to God. I wish you all the best Mike. Its up to you. Go half way to God and He will meet you the other half with open arms. God Bless you.
You really ought to start looking at yourself before others. Think motes and beams, brother Steve. Satan has surely won when people who are wilfully Satanic accuse others of it but pretend to be angels. The Patriarchal religions are all Satanic, that is why their devotees have been killing each other for centuries. When will you learn?
There is absolute moral authority of right and wrong that comes from God, the world and satan do not like it or want absolute right and wrong.
How do you know how God or Satan thinks? Are you God or are you Satan? You do not even know how a Moslem thinks or even the next man to you in a diner. Christians in general think they are God, or at least have a hot line to his brain. In fact, God and Satan are as imaginary as Santa Claus. Prove to me that they are not.
About Bush. You misunderstood. I didn’t say it was ok for him to kill anytime he wants, but he has to defense the nation.He still has to be judged by God for his actions just like all of us will be.
So defending the nation is killing 10,000 mainly innocent Arabs in their own country, is it, in the Christian way of thinking? Some Moslem madmen blow up a couple of tower blocks, and the Christians leader of the free world uses it as an excuse for solving corporate America’s oil problem, with God’s blessing. Christian love and justice, no doubt!
Bush is not the antichrist I promise you. The Pope will be the first beast, He is head of the false church. Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou wonder? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, (false church) and of the beast (One of the Popes) that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns.
You always have the answers except that they are convincing only to you. How do you know Bush is not the anti-Christ, given that you think there will be one? This citation from the New Testament does not say anything about the Pope or the Catholic Church. It mentions a woman and a beast. It is probably Condeleaza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld. I don’t know where you get all this absurd biblical interpretation from, but you might as well interpret Harry Potter books as make up what you do about the New Testament. Does it ever occur to you that when God says something, He might resent it when a supposed devotee says He meant the opposite? Too bad for you, if He does.
Our earthly body has a sin nature. When I go to heaven I will have a heavenly body that no longer has the sin nature. We will not be having sex in heaven because that would be a sin outside of marriage. There will be no need to reproduce. Mt 22 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Rom 6:13 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 1 Cor 6:13 Food for the stomach and the stomach for food—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 1 Cor 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Now if you read my emails carefully, you will have seen that I was telling you this, and asking you why then Christians believe they will meet dead partners in heaven and live together in bliss. I can read what the bible says as well as you can, though I do not put utterly contradictory or unfounded interpretations on what I read. Most Christians think they will live in heaven as they did on earth, assuming they are good enough to get there. Why do you not tell all those Christian people who suffer from this misunderstanding about life in heaven, what you are telling me? I tell it to ignorant Christians who read my pages and to whom it comes as a revelation because they are spiritualists not Christians at all, but they are still shocked that heaven is not what they think it should be. This Christian trickery is just as bad, in my view, as the Moslem trickery. Not only that, but people in heaven can only live forever without going mad, if time stops and there is no awareness of the passage of time in heaven at all. That means that heaven is a static place, so there is no loving each other, or even praising God. Everything is motionless. Perfection must be motionless because whatever is perfect has no reason to change. That was the idea that the Zoroastrians had, and their’s was the correct one originally in Christianity. Since then Christian ministers have lied and lied to persuade people of the impossible—that a good God will oblige them to go raving mad by forcing them to stay conscious in death forever and ever!
Mike I was not judging you, God will. I was only making a commit about your attitude only. Maybe I should have not pointed that out. Mt 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Listen, Steve, I quoted these two citations to you in a previous letter, so why are you wasting our time quoting them back to me? I can pick out biblical quotations are well as the next man, but I try not to petrify my brain by soaking it in this fossilizing medium. I suggest you try thinking for yourself. Citations from old books, unless it is well founded science, mean nothing more than citing from Mickey Mouse.
You now begin a long series of biblical extracts with your own meaningless commentary. It is meaningless because you can only imagine it has meaning by thinking you are yourself God and therefore able to interpret it. Again, I have told you that ancient writing and ranting, whether accompanied by modern ranting based on the same absence of evidence is utter tripe, yet you spout on and on… and on… about it. Give me a break. It is ancient and largely erroneous propaganda. Read my pages and you might learn something. Spirit, for example, a word that you and your kind infuse with divine significance, simply means breath. It was the ancient word for life, because whatever was lifeless no longer breathed. Just try to learn some sense, and cease spouting. We have one level of understanding only. It is the human level, so I’ll skip most of the rest of your ancient quoting.
I think you try to pull God down to our human level of understanding 1 Cor 2:9. However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"—but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. Heb 2:1. We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
FAITH Rom 3:22. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Rom 6:1. What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (That’s my loved ones and me) We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. (You could too Mike, live in glory and learn the deep things of God, learn and expand yourself with the universe to move about in Too travel around by just thinking of a place and be their in an instant. If you love God he will take care of you forever.) If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. (I will not die either and no longer under sin as long as I follow Christ. That’s how I KNOW I will go to heaven.) The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life inChrist Jesus our Lord. Rom 5:6. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
HELL—You said people (which will be their souls) will not burn forever. I will show you that they will burn forever and forever with no end. Rev 19:20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone: (This is what happens next). Rev 20:10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Then comes the Judgement of God on the people that have not been judged yet.) Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (Note: Rev 20:10 says “for ever and ever”.)
You interpret utterly falsely and selectively as you all do because you haven’t an ounce of honesty in your bodies. I have already given you excerpts that show that there was no intention that the evangelists conceived of perpetual torture, even if it were possible for a God of love. Nor do these citations say it either. The best you can say about Rev 20:10 is that the Devil and his immediate friends would be burned for ever and ever, but the final citation shows that the sea of fire was the second death. The second death is the permanent death. If it is death, then how can anyone be alive to experience these everlasting tortures? The two ideas are incompatible. You either die the second death or you live forever being tortured.
It is all nonsense whatever your interpretations, but I argue the point simply to show that you are wrong even in your own terms. It suits the clergy for gullible Christians to live in abject fear that they will be tortured forever by the loving God, if they do not give up their lives to odious and often bestial people called priests and ministers of the Church. It is the most powerful and disgusting use of human fear to impose their perverted desires and beliefs on to the rest of humanity. Those who support them are as bad.
Mike we will have a new beginning. Rev 21:4. and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.
It is plain enough that there is no more mourning, tears, pain, etc, when you are naturally dead. There is nothing at all. There is no need of a second death. The first one is absolute enough, and only crooks, bullies and bullshitters say otherwise.
Mike you said you didn’t know why I was so interested in you. I’ll tell you. I care what happens to your soul. God put it in my heart for some reason to care for this guy on the internet named Mike. At first it was to stand up for God. (Like he needs my help) But then I see this guy (Mike) who knows the bible pretty good, but doesn’t want anything to do with God or His word. I know Jesus marked everything. The worlds, stars, and us humans in His image. He wants to give us so much and loves us beyond our thinking. He will not force us. Without light there is darkness, without love there is hate, without joy there is sorrow, without heaven there is hell, without God there is the devil.
Phil 2: Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
(This may be the last time I e-mail you. Good luck with your life and hope to see you in Heaven.)
Well perhaps that will be a relief to both of us. And there is as much chance of us meeting together in heaven as their is of us meeting together in Fairyland. I did not say I didn’t know why you were interested in me. I simply observed that you were. You said you are interested in my soul because God made you interested, but if God is Himself interested in my soul well then He has the wherewithal to inform me about His concern directly. This is what you Christians cannot get. God does not need His animated pottery people meddling about in His affairs. That is the Christian scam. It is not God who wants others to look after other people’s souls on His behalf, but the wideboys who call themselves clergymen.
As for you, you should read something about the Church in the middle ages and in the Reformation. Christians happily burnt human people slowly to death while they were tied to a pole and could not escape. This was so that they could do what you say you want to do—save their souls. Their souls were saved by savagely and cruelly burning their bodies from their feet up. It might take them an hour to die—in excruciating agony. That is your religion. Your God is supposed to have done the dying for the rest of us, but Christians never think that there is enough dying going on. Nor do the other so-called Patriarchal religions. Christians would do the same today, if it were not illegal, and, in fact, use chemical and fire bombs to do similar things, with no conscience bothered by God, as you admitted about Bush.
I am confident enough to say this to you. If there is a good God such as you believe in, then he is reserving the lake of brimstone as a permanent torture for the large number of demented Christians who just cannot distinguish a good God from a wicked one.
Anyway, I have enjoyed talking with you, and hope that it might have given you some positive thoughts to dwell upon, but I note that you think God put an ancient book where most of us have a brain, however inadequate. I suggest that you discover your brain, and ignore the book. If you think that is Satanic, then you will know who your true Creator is. Sincerely good wishes for your future.
